Keeping "realms" logical

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Keeping "realms" logical

Postby Doompuppet » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:00 pm

Hi again.

I'm just going to lay this out. Just my own PoV, not saying it's the best way to go about things. (Clarification because I tend to come off as a know-it-all jerk. Heh.)

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Keeping Realms Logical

Okay, so we all know the usual score. You're tooting around a village, you go out into the woods, and there you find adventure.

Killer plants, giant spiders, dragons, zombies, marmots, evil teddy bears, fairies, disgruntled postal workers, etc.

That kind of doesn't make much sense, though.


What I'd propose for Anathema going forward (and again, just my PoV) would be making sure each "realm" contains creatures that are VERY logical for that location.


Example:

Tropical Island - Giant Spiders, Giant Ants, Killer Plants, Giant Hermit Crabs, Landsharks, etc.
Afterlife-styled Realm - Skeletons, Ghosts, Zombies, etc.
D&D-styled Realm - Dragons, Goblins, Ogres, Fairies, etc.
Storybook-styled Realm - Witches, evil teddy bears, big bad wolves, etc.
Prehistoric Realm - Sabre-toothed cats, Ancient Cultists, maybe even a dino or two, etc.
Maze Realm - Minotaurs, Blobs, Golems, etc.
Heaven-styled Realm (for lack of a better term) - Any other type of creature, but all in spirit form.

You get the idea.


Now, this doesn't exclude monsters from crossing over - for example there could of course be "That dragon over there!", but I'm generally speaking in terms of making players actually go to special lengths (traversing realms) to find the creatures they want to fight and get drops from.


Waaayyyy back when I played Blade Mistress (I left and gave away all my stuff when it was said to be going "pay to play", which I suppose didn't happen - left for nothing?) I always found it odd that you could essentially walk a short distance to fight Dragons, Golems, Killer Plants, Minotaurs, Skeletons, etc.

I think it enhances gameplay and the immersiveness of the whole thing if you can ONLY find what you need by travelling and engaging the larger world.



It's very bolstering to the player (speaking for myself and my experience) to find what you need right away and only go to other areas of the game when you "feel like messing around", but I think that with a little more adversity in travel and searching for things, Anathema could really flourish.



And yes, I know other games do this and I'm not saying any big new idea. XD

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Short Version: Keep the tropical island NPCs tropical, etc.
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby KingRiz3n » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:55 am

+100 sounds like a great idea i think... btw its been awhile since i logged onto the forums lol, been very very very very (infinite very's) busy for the last couple of months, it seems my life just doesnt want to slow down to allow me to continue on Blender D:, anyway great idea i like it and i think it would be awesome.
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby Dekker3D » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:59 pm

Doompuppet. You have made a great argument for having us place the right monsters in the right places instead of just spawning them everywhere in the realm, and it saddens me to say that..
Well, you wasted a perfectly good post on something we were going to have to do anyway, because we have no choice.

BM had no real obstacles. Anything on the map could be walked around, so creatures could simply be spawned at any point on the terrain. In NeoAxis though, we can't do that. Because we have actual buildings, and no grid. Monster spawners have been implemented, with great care for getting a good mix of monsters, spread out over a fitting area. If MVM so desired, he could build a bunch of orc camps with a total of 80 orcs, even though one could've just been razed and emptied and the others just have a few more for a while, until folks start attacking those camps instead. Yes, linked spawn points.

I'm not sure if there's a way to always have it spawn exactly one "leader" or "boss" mob somewhere, no more and no less.. but if not, I could implement that the moment MVM asks for it, too.
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby Doompuppet » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:49 am

It would be interesting, if I might spew some ideas yet again, to have a structure sort of like this...


1.) Object on map spawns NPCs. An Orc tent randomly "generates" Orcs to replace ones that die. IE: "If there are less than 5 Orcs around tent, generate Orc." every X amount of time.

-- 1a.) That way destroying the tent is a priority as well.
-- 1b.) Spawn objects could be set differently, IE: "Large tent generates from 2 to 4 Orcs per spawn period."
-- 1c.) Spawning objects could even offer drops when destroyed - but I'd suggest keeping it one type of drop no matter the object - like an "Idol" specific to the type of monster spawning.

2.) Spawning objects could be set to be "replaced" per X amount of time, enabling a tent to grow as Orcs (unseen!) make it better, etc.

-- 2a.) This would give a good flavor of realism. One giant Orc tent, around it some large ones, then a bunch of small ones... there you have an Orc camp -- and it all started when that giant tent was a small one, alone in the woods.
-- 2b.) Another example - Let's say there's an Ant Hill for giant ants. That ant hill gradually gets bigger over time, spawning giant ants. When there are enough large ant hills around - it spawns "Giant Ant Lions" in pits. The idea is that the ant lions were "drawn" to the large amount of ants, but really code-wise they're spawned by the large ant hill objects.


Now here's what draws it all together...


3.) Some NPCs could have a % chance of CREATING a spawning object. Like a lone Orc who is all alone after his friends are killed off. The game says... "One Orc, no others around it. Create Orc Tent." Boom - More Orcs spawning over time, and a new camp is built!

-- 3a.) This ensures that you never truly know where a camp is going to pop up.
-- 3b.) This also gives NPCs a bit of a survival instinct. If you destroy a Giant Wasp nest, let's say one of the wasps flees and you don't kill it. That wasp would naturally want to create a new nest, that would then create more wasps.


4.) There could be some that are beneficial to players. Players could build a Guard Hut that generates "Guard" NPCs that attack monsters that come near the hut... etc.

5.) Spawning objects (Tents, Nests, etc.) would have health points like an NPC - you'd have to actually "fight" it to destroy it, though it does't fight back.

-- 5a.) I would suggest that if you destroy a "Giant Tent", it does not then get demoted to a "Big Tent", but is instead just outright destroyed.

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Concerns:

"What if there are too many Orcs?!" - It would be pre-set so that they stop spawning if there are X number of Orcs around. Like making a small tent stop if there are 5 Orcs, all the way up to a Giant Tent stopping if there are 20 Orcs.

"What if there are no NPCs left to create spawning objects??" - Easy. Then the game arbitrarily spawns the NPCs, or the spawning object... or both! There could also be special indestructable spawn objects, like a "pit" that spawns giant spiders, or a "gate" you can't attack out of which otherworldly monsters emerge... whatever.

"What if NPCs start building a spawning object near a safe place?" - Consider it a turf war. :)

"That doesn't make sense. Ghosts wouldn't build a tent or a nest, neither would zombies or ferrets or giant kadydids!!" - Well, of course not ALL NPCs would make spawning objects! Some, or even most, would just spawn normally, or under other conditions. Plus, Ghosts don't need to build "tents", they could erect a "dark monument" to honor themselves, which would then "draw in", AKA "spawn", more spirits. The possibilities are endless.

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Here's the less wordy version:

It'd be cool if...

1.) NPCs could place an "object" on the map that spawns more NPCs.
2.) That "object" could spawn NPCs based on how many of that NPC is within a certain radius.
3.) That "object" could be replaced with a larger version if it's left alone for a period of time.
4.) Players could destroy the object, maybe with a special token drop.



The End.
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby Dekker3D » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:21 pm

That's an interesting design. Having the monsters place said spawn objects in a reachable place might turn out to be a huge hassle, but it'd definitely be worth it!
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby MVM » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:01 pm

A really interesting idea you got there Doompuppet :)
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby KingRiz3n » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:16 pm

that is a pretty dang good idea lol... it would be just amazing to to do, so that way theirs no set "spots" to go to destroy the orc camps when u see the message pop up lol.

Also you should script monsters to do a variety of things.. watch the E3 trailers on Elder Scrolls V Skyrim to get a better idea of this (in Skyrim the dragons have advanced AI, as in they can choose to go around an attack other towns or pick up another monster or NPC in game and throw him or attack him/it and alot of other things they can choose from as well... such as forming a pack with other dragons in the game to go around and own everything lol).... either way Doompuppets idea is amazing lol and i would love to see it implemented in Anathema/BM2
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Re: Keeping "realms" logical

Postby Doompuppet » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:56 am

Careful, guys. You'll encourage me to post a megaton more. :lol:

I forgot to mention, this could even work with shops, etc. A small hut appears - on a timed basis it then becomes a small shop - then a large shop... each size having its own size of selection and prices...

Maybe one or two merchants "spawn" near the shop randomly... they could even have random "specialties", like a jewelery merchant, weapon merchant, etc.

...Then, if the merchants and buildings can be attacked by NPCs, it adds a new level of "defend the town"... :)
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